This Week With George Stephanopoulos   View more episodes

Aired at 02:00 PM on Sunday, Aug 11, 2013 (8/11/2013)      View all transcripts from this day


00:00:06>>> Good morning, and welcome to " >>> spy shift.
00:00:11The president reforms america's secret surveillance programs.
00:00:15Was his hand forced by this man?
00:00:18>> No, I don't think he was a patriot.
00:00:22>> This morning, snowden's father responds.
00:00:26Brand new details.
00:00:27Will his son come home to face trial?
00:00:30What will he reveal next in only " >>> plus this morning, the embassies reopen after the worldwide terror alert.
00:00:34Are we at risk?
00:00:37>>> And why is donald trump stumping in iowa?
00:00:40>> The republican party is in serious trouble.
00:00:45>> The roundtable weighs in on the politics right here on this sunday morning.
00:00:55>>> Good morning.
00:00:56In the news overnigh a dramatic rescue.
00:00:59Hannah anderson, the kidnapped san diego teenager is safe after an all-out man hunt ended in the idaho wilderness.
00:01:14>> James lee dimaggio was shot and killed by a tactical agent.
00:01:21Hannah anderson was located with dimagg dimaggio.
00:01:23She appears well.
00:01:24>> She will be reunited with her father this morning.
00:01:25>>> One of the deadliest days in iraq for years.
00:01:27A series of car bombs all timed to hit those celebrating the end of ramadan.
00:01:30>>> And across the region, 18 of the 19 american embassies and consulates closed after a global terror alert are open again.
00:01:42Martha raddatz has been tracking the threats that led to the closing.
00:01:44Are the embassies opening again officials believe the drone strikes in yemen this week actually got the plotters?
00:01:52>> George, officials say the plotters of this specific plan were not killed in strikes in yemen, but the dead are part of the network of terrorists trying to kill americans.
00:02:03Intelligence officials believe the plan was to send a truck embassy there.
00:02:10 official, that because of the actions taken, the terrorists have likely moved the explosives out of the vehicle and are changing tactics.
00:02:22Adding that we think that the imminent threat dissipated, but fear they have gone back to ground waiting for the next opportunity to strike.
00:02:30This immediate threat may have passed, but the threat of terrorism never passed.
00:02:37 officials that tlebl that the nsa surveillance programs helped track this emerging threat.
00:02:47The president announced some reforms on friday in those programs.
00:02:49And had tough words for the nsa leaker edward snowden, said he was not a patriot.
00:02:51Take a look.
00:02:52 snowden's been charged with three felonies.
00:02:56If he believes what he did was right, then like every american citizen, he can come here, appear before the court with a lawyer, and make his case.
00:03:07>> So, what have you been able to learn about what u.s.
00:03:09Officials are trying to do to get snowden right now?
00:03:12>> Some officials I've talked to wish that a deal could be struck to bring him back to the u.s.
00:03:17Make no mistake.
00:03:20One official said he has done irrefutable damage.
00:03:23The more the terrorists know how we can monitor them, the less we will be able to.
00:03:28That's the single most important asset we have.
00:03:32Some officials say we don't know all of what he has, we don't want him in the hands of the russians.
00:03:37Whatever message it would send, he's gotten the president of the united states to make some changes.
00:03:44But the justice department has given no indication a deal is in the works.
00:03:48>> Some pushing for it.
00:03:50>>> Now to the exclusive interview with lon snowden.
00:03:55The family's lawyer, thank you for joining us.
00:03:59Some officials believe that a deal may be in the united states' interest.
00:04:03Do you think your son is open to it?
00:04:06>> I'm not open it.
00:04:07That's what I'll share with my son.
00:04:11In terms of plea deal, at this point -- >> not open to it.
00:04:17>> Not open to it.
00:04:18What I would like is for this to be vetted in open court for the american people to have all of the facts.
00:04:23What I have seen is political theater.
00:04:25I was disappointed in the president's press conference.
00:04:27I believe that's driven by his clear understanding that the american people are unhappy with what they've learned and more is forthcoming.
00:04:41>> What disappointed you in particular?
00:04:43>> What he suggested is superficial.
00:04:46We can go over that point by point if you would like, but a deal -- the only deal will be true justice.
00:04:49You know, justice should be the goal of our government.
00:04:52And it's also the goal of a civil society.
00:04:54>> Those are the words of james madison.
00:04:56But I could make these points, george.
00:04:58Number one, we have a date for visiting moscow.
00:05:00>> You're going to moscow.
00:05:06You have visas from the russians.
00:05:08>> We have visas, we have a date which we won't disclose because of the frenzy.
00:05:10>> It's imminent?
00:05:11>> Very soon.
00:05:11And we intend to visit with edward and suggest criminal defense attorneys who have experience in espionage act prosecutions.
00:05:23There have only been ten in 100 years.
00:05:25We think it's important to go back to what president obama said about him not being a patriot.
00:05:28It was the voice of the american revolution, thomas payne who said it was someone who saves his country from his government.
00:05:34We heard about the alleged disasters that would ensue because of what edward has done.
00:05:40Back to the bradley manning case, at the damage phase, the united states conceded not one person has been injured and impaired because of of what he disclosed.
00:05:50>> What was your reaction when you heard the president he's not a patriot?
00:05:57>> I would say, again, I think he was put in a tough spot.
00:06:02There's many questions that should have been asked that were not.
00:06:04I would have liked to see them ask about the dea special operation division, many other things, his treatment of whistle blowers.
00:06:11But if he's a patriot or others like peter king who says he's a traitor, what I would say is my son has spoken the truth.
00:06:22He sacrificed more than the president of the united states or peter king have ever in their political careers and their american lives.
00:06:26How they choose to characterize him really isn't -- >> you're not open to a deal, but it does sound like you're going to encourage your son to come back and face trial.
00:06:35>> I can add, because I wrote a letter with lon to the attorney general of the united states saying we would like to discuss conditions to make it permissible.
00:06:47>> Pre-trial detention, no gag order, he would choose the venue.
00:06:53>> At a venue that was impartial because history of eastern virginia being a graveyard for defendants.
00:06:59They were not stated as ultimatums.
00:07:03They were subjects for discussion with non-circumvention clauses in there.
00:07:06Understand, we can't dictate what the department does.
00:07:07>> As a father, you want your son to come home.
00:07:08>> As a father, I want him to come home if I believe that the justice system we should be afforded as americans is going to be applied correctly.
00:07:22If you consider the statements by the leaders in congress, they are irresponsible and inconsistent with our system of justice.
00:07:32They have poisoned the well in terms of a jury pool.
00:07:33Where my son chooses to live the rest of his life is his decision.
00:07:37But I would like for him to be able to come back to the u.s.
00:07:41Whether he's going to live here, and face this.
00:07:47I believe that the truth will shine through.
00:07:49It's clear that the american people regardless of the laws -- >> it does appear he broke the law.
00:07:55>> No.
00:07:55>> That's simply irresponsible to suggest before a trial someone has broken the law.
00:07:59May well be that what he disclosed is protected by the first amendment.
00:08:02The president conceded the there's something about irregular with the nsa program -- >> other avenues -- >> let's go with that.
00:08:17 snowden should have gone to the congress oversight committees.
00:08:19They have gone on record, dianne feinstein, guilty of treason.
00:08:21They knew for seven years what was going on and refused to disclose it to the american people.
00:08:24The best was some cryptic statements.
00:08:27If they knew what was going on, they would be stunned.
00:08:31Edward snowden is supposed to go to them?
00:08:36That seems rather implausible because they were the ones responsible for the secrecy.
00:08:40>> I want to add to this.
00:08:41In terms of the president made the statement that the president had enacted whistle blower laws that protected contractors like my son edward, that is absolutely untrue.
00:08:48Either the president is being mis-led by his advisers or he is intentionally mis-leading the american people.
00:08:59>> The whistle blower -- >> absolutely not.
00:09:01We should go through that.
00:09:02Hypothetically, let's imagine he said there's a problem -- he got on an airline in honolulu and , and lands at dulles and actually gets an audience, let's say, peter king, or dianne feinstein.
00:09:23How do we think he would have been received if he had a private audience?
00:09:28We have seen how they reacted, they spin the truth, he would have been buried and we would have never known the truth.
00:09:31>> I know you han't been in direct contact with your son, but what do you know about his condition right now?
00:09:36>> I'll say that having spoken with his russian attorney, he said he's safe.
00:09:43He obviously is exhausted.
00:09:46But he's now needing a period of time where he can recoup his energy level and reflect on what he wishes to do going forward.
00:09:55That's from his attorney.
00:09:56We hope to meet with him very soon, with edward in the next weeks.
00:09:59>> Good luck.
00:09:59Thank you.
00:10:00>> Thank you.
00:10:00>> Thank you.
00:10:03>> And the chairs of the foreign affairs committee, robert menendez, democrat, and republican congressman ed royce, the chairman of the house foreign affairs committee.
00:10:15Senator, let me begin with you, you heard this from lon snowden, and his attorney, they don't believe that ed snowden could have gotten a fair hearing had he come to congress.
00:10:24>> I don't think that's true.
00:10:25I as a father appreciate the vigorous defense that mr.
00:10:28Snowden is providing for his son.
00:10:31But in my view, ed snowden is a fugitive who deserves to be in an american courtroom, not in asylum in russia.
00:10:43I believe he would have got an fair hearing.
00:10:44All the time issues related to the government by whistle blowers who come forth and bring those issues to the attention of the congress is often the way to have action.
00:10:59He didn't need to undermine america's national security to pursue whatever his conscious led him to do.
00:11:03There's a process by which he could have pursued his interest in a way that doesn't undermine the national security of the united states.
00:11:09When we have our sources and methods known by our enemies, we undermine the national security of the united states.
00:11:17I would say it's easy since we have not, thank god, had an attack on american soil since SEPTEMBER 11th, TO MINIMIZE THE Threat, but it's real.
00:11:27And the terrorists only have to get lucky once.
00:11:28We have to do it right 100% of the time.
00:11:32That's a tough standard.
00:11:33>> And a key member of your committee from california who's chair of the subcommittee dealing with russia seems to have sympathy with edward snowden.
00:11:42This is him yesterday on c-span.
00:11:45>> I thought he was being loyal to the rest of us by letting the american people know that the government was getting out of hand.
00:11:52Accepting him for asylum, i think, was not as hostile an act as its being portrayed.
00:12:02>> Do you agree with those views on edward snowden and russia?
00:12:04>> No, I do not.
00:12:06And we have to keep in mind here that the conundrum we're in is one in which al-qaeda is learning how we track them, and second, you know, with this new master bomb-maker that they've used in yemen to develop this new strategy, the underwear bomber, for example, his attempted attack was at the behest -- at the -- with the support of this master bomb-maker.
00:12:33This master bomb-maker now is teaching his trade, we happen to know, to a lot of other bomb-makers in yemen, and they're going on the internet with this capability, and with the hope of bringing into the united states agents to carry out these types of attacks.
00:12:52Attacks which are undetectable.
00:12:57And so we're in the process of trying to monitor what al-qaeda is doing overseas and here in the united states in order to try to replicate that particular attempted attack and to expand it demonstrably.
00:13:13So when you have someone who is giving out the means and methods in which we're tracking al-qaeda, it is a problem for the united states.
00:13:21And secondarily, when we're talking about the former head of the kgb, president putin in russia, this is not been an ally.
00:13:36As you know, the administration has tried to engage him on several issues such as missile defense, and has worked with him on trade issues.
00:13:43And we have not seen any reciprocation from the russians because this former kgb agent still has a sense of hostility to the west and to the united states.
00:13:59>> So, senator, how do we get the relationship with russia back on track?
00:14:01The president says there's no bad relations between he and president putin personally, but they are at odds on every major issue.
00:14:06>> Well, look, you know, russia should be looking towards how do they achieve a prosperous future for the citizens versus going back to an authoritarian past.
00:14:16We seem to be more invested in the effort to create a relationship with russia that can be productive for both countries more than putin is.
00:14:26It seems to me that as we've tried to restart this relationship several times, maybe now is a moment to pause and think about how we're going to move forward with russia.
00:14:35They are unresponsive to us as it relates to the tragedies that are going on in syria.
00:14:41They are unresponsive to us as it relates to further nuclear arms reduction.
00:14:46They are unresponsive when they violate the rights of gay and lesbians including foreign visitors who would come to russia and be arrested.
00:14:53They are unresponsive when they stop the adoptions by americans of russian children.
00:15:01I look at that and think it's time to pause and think about the relationship and how to pursue it in a way to promote the national security and interest of the united states.
00:15:11>> Do you think that ed snowden would get a fair trial in the united states?
00:15:15>> I think he could get a fair trial in the united states.
00:15:18And I think that the concern here is that in -- in going to china and going to russia and in particular with respect to the authorities that he's meeting with in russia, I think this further compounds the problem for u.s. intelligence.
00:15:36And I think we have existing whistle blower capabilities here in the united states.
00:15:42On a regular basis, whistle blowers come forward, give information to congress, and we attempt to address those issues.
00:15:49Going to china and going to russia was not the solution to the problem.
00:15:53It compounds our difficulties in the united states with respect to al-qaeda.
00:15:57>> Congressman, senator, thank you for your time.
00:15:58>> Thank you.
00:16:00>>> Roundtable up next.
00:16:02Joaquin castro and louis gohmert on obamacare and immigration.
00:16:08Plus all kinds of action in iowa this weekend.
00:16:14And stumping for hillary, and donald trump, his interview on "this week".
00:16:18>> Ted cruz, born in canada.
00:16:19Is he eligible to be president of the united states?
00:16:20>> Well, if he was born in canada, perhaps not.nada, perhaps not.
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00:18:35>>> roundtable coming up.
00:18:36>>> Roundtable coming up.
00:18:37All the week's politics and the campaign action already in iowa.
00:18:39Hillary clinton, donald trump, a whole pack of presidential clinton, donald trump, a whole pack of presidential prospectors.
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00:20:29>>> Every august,he >>> every august, the iowa state fear features pork tenderloins, deep-fried twinkies, a whole bunch of ambitious politician with the white house in their sights.
00:20:40It's three years away, but it's never too early.
00:20:44Presidential hopefuls are out in force across the hawkeye state this morning.
00:20:52Jonathan karl is there.
00:20:53>> Reporter: Good morning.
00:20:54Donald trump was here, he gave a speech saying that passing immigration would be a death wish for the republican party.
00:21:01He may run, but that has some people raising their eyebrows and some rolling their eyes.
00:21:05Could you be taken seriously?
00:21:08>> I have built a great company with a tremendous net worth.
00:21:15And beaten a lot of people that are very smart.
00:21:19And that's what the country needs.
00:21:20>> Reporter: What do you say that a possible trump candidacy is a joke?
00:21:25It's a publicity stunt, to get more attention for yourself?
00:21:28>> Interestingly, I filed applications last time, and i filed my net worth.
00:21:33I'm a private person, nobody knows.
00:21:34People were shocked at the number.
00:21:36Now it's bigger than it was.
00:21:37How strong the company is, how much cash.
00:21:40It's a beautiful company.
00:21:42It's a company like this country should look.
00:21:44>> Reporter: What's the number, what are you worth now?
00:21:47>> Probably over $10 billion.
00:21:48>> Reporter: If you were to run for president, how much would you be willing to spend?
00:21:53>> If I made a decision, I'd spend a lot.
00:21:55>> Reporter: A modern presidential campaign would be half a billion dollars.
00:21:59>> It could.
00:22:03Or more.
00:22:04>> Reporter: That much?
00:22:04>> If I did it, I would spend what it took.
00:22:09>> Reporter: Your assessment on the field.
00:22:10Give me the first word that pops to mind.
00:22:13Marco rubio.
00:22:14>> Immigration.
00:22:14>> Reporter: Rand paul.
00:22:15>> Interesting.
00:22:16>> Reporter: Paul ryan.
00:22:21>> Well, you know, I really like him a lot.
00:22:24But you have to look at what he says about the social security and medicare and medicaid.
00:22:31It's a tough road.
00:22:33But I do like.
00:22:34Let's say medicare.
00:22:35>> Reporter: Chris christie.
00:22:36>> Wonderful person.
00:22:37He's a wonderful guy.
00:22:37>> Reporter: Ted cruz.
00:22:38>> Obamacare.
00:22:41He really is fighting on trying stop this absolute disaster for the united states called obamacare.
00:22:47>> Reporter: Donald trump.
00:22:51>> Smart.
00:22:53>> Reporter: You said a lot of things over the years that people say make you not serious.
00:23:00One of the big things is on the birth certificates.
00:23:02>> Why does that make me not serious?
00:23:05I think that resonated with a lot of people.
00:23:06>> Reporter: But you don't question he was born in the united states, do you?
00:23:12>> I have no idea.
00:23:13>> Reporter: Even at this point?
00:23:13>> Was there a birth certificate?
00:23:15You tell me.
00:23:18You know some people say that was not his birth certificate.
00:23:24Nobody knows.
00:23:24You don't know either.
00:23:25You're a smart guy.
00:23:26>> Reporter: I'm pretty convinced.
00:23:27>> You said pretty.
00:23:28>> Reporter: Totally convinced.
00:23:29>> You said you're pretty convinced.
00:23:31Let's see what happens over time, but it's not my issue, jonathan.
00:23:36My issue right now is much different.
00:23:38Wait a minute -- my issue is economic.
00:23:40Our country is being ripped apart by china and many other countries.
00:23:46That's my issue.
00:23:46>> Reporter: But on this issue -- >> you said you're pretty sure.
00:23:50You're pretty sure, that's not acceptable.
00:23:53You have to be 100% sure.
00:23:55>> Reporter: I'm 100% sure.
00:23:56>> I don't think you are.
00:23:59>> Reporter: Let me ask you this, ted cruise.
00:24:03Born in canada.
00:24:05If he was born in canada, is he eligible to be president of the united states?
00:24:09>> If so, he's not.
00:24:10>> Reporter: He was definitely born in canada.
00:24:12>> You'll have to ask him this.
00:24:12>> Reporter: His mother was an american citizen.
00:24:15>> That'll be ironed out.
00:24:17I heard somebody told me he was born in canada.
00:24:20That's his thing.
00:24:21>> Reporter: You played golf with john boehner the other day.
00:24:22>> I did.
00:24:23>> Reporter: The big question is will house republicans pass a funding bill for the government that includes funding for obamacare.
00:24:28Should they?
00:24:31>> Well, that is a good question.
00:24:33I do think this, the budget should be funded.
00:24:39But I don't think that obamacare should be funded.
00:24:43And the republicans are in many ways their own worst enemy.
00:24:44I happen to be a republican.
00:24:45If they get together and were unified, I think they could do damage to get rid of obamacare chas very positive thing for the country.
00:24:56>> Reporter: You know hillary clinton.
00:24:57>> I do.
00:24:59>> Reporter: How touch ever tough will she be to beat if she's the nominee?
00:25:04>> She will be tough.
00:25:05>> Reporter: What do they need to do to beat her or whatever the candidate is?
00:25:07>> They need to pick the right candidate.
00:25:11Mitt romney was -- in theory, everything should have been good.
00:25:16It didn't.
00:25:17Didn't resonate.
00:25:18Wonderful guy, didn't resonate.
00:25:18They have to pick the right candidate.
00:25:21>> Reporter: The iowa caucus are two and a half years away, but this place is crawling with possible presidential candidates.
00:25:29Just this weekend, we have seen ted cruz, of course, donald trump, rick santorum, and even claire mccaskill was out here on behalf of hillary clinton.
00:25:42If you're here in iowa, looks like the 2016 presidential campaign is already well underway.
00:25:46>> All right begun.
00:25:47Thanks very much.
00:25:48More from the powerhouse roundtable.
00:25:49Joined by george will, donna brazile, louis gohmert, republican, and joaquin castro, democrat.
00:25:57Both from texas.
00:25:57Setting aside donald trump, it appears there's an intensity of activity in iowa, particularly on the republican side.
00:26:04We saw claire mccaskill out for hillary this weekend.
00:26:07It's in part because it's so wide open in the gop.
00:26:11>> Both parties will be nominating someone who's not president.
00:26:14That opens it up a lot.
00:26:17The democratic field, they have a weak bench, and be careful what they wish for to clear the field and have no competition.
00:26:26The last time almost uncontested nomination was '56, with stevenson.
00:26:33He probably would have been beaten anyway, but he was beaten.
00:26:35Competition is good for parties.
00:26:36The republican party is going to get their fill of it.
00:26:38>> No question, but there does not appear to be that much competition yet, understandably, with hillary clinton out there find of freezing the field.
00:26:47>> I don't think so.
00:26:47Martin o'malley made noise he's interested, joe biden, and kristen gillibrand, elizabeth warren, a lot of buzz, and governor cuomo from new york.
00:27:02A lot of talk.
00:27:03And let me not forgot joe biden.
00:27:05He will call me this afternoon and remind me.
00:27:08It's too early to handicap the race, if hillary clinton gets into the race, there will be a coronation of her because there are so many democrats who last time around supported her, who i think are anxious to see her out there again.
00:27:27>> I read your brother, mayor of san antonio, heading to iowa as well.
00:27:33You accompanying him?
00:27:34>> He's not running for anything.
00:27:35He's headed out to the harkin steak fry in september.
00:27:38>> A lot of tilling of the ground.
00:27:40Let me bring this back to you, congressman, because it seems there's a brewing potential civil war inside the republican party.
00:27:53You heard sarah palin last night said she was on the team of rand paul versus chris christie.
00:27:59>> There's a lot of competition out there.
00:28:01With regard to the democratic side, I seem to remember in 2007, this was hillary's nomination.
00:28:04Obama may run just to be ready in 2016.
00:28:05The point being you never know.
00:28:07I think that's true where we are with the republicans.
00:28:09I don't think you could say.
00:28:11I would never have predicted THAT SOMEBODY named McCain would end up being the nominee after 2007 when the story was he was so low he had to carry his own bags.
00:28:23I don't think you should underestimate the power iowa has to attract people to the state fair of the fried butter.
00:28:31It is absolutely incredible.
00:28:34>> You have an excellent point.
00:28:35>> Republicans have a lot of experience with civil war, 1912, roosevelt and taft.
00:28:431964, Rockefellers and bhoop -- whoops, excuse me, goldwater.
00:28:54What republicans need to bear in mind is one number, 28.
00:28:5918 States have voted democratic in six consecutive elections back to 1992.
00:29:04If they hold the base, and they look for 28 electoral votes, they've got 242 in those states, they'll find them.
00:29:11>> I think what's most problematic for republicans is they seem to be taken by the tea party more extreme base, so the candidates that are most appealing right now are the ted cruzs, the rand pauls, those folks.
00:29:22If they nominate them, it's 1964 all over again.
00:29:25That's not majority of americans.
00:29:27>> Is that your fear?
00:29:28>> Not really.
00:29:30At the tea party, I see people from all races, ages, genders.
00:29:38The thing they have in common is they're paying income tax.
00:29:42I don't think you should rule out district of columbia voting for republican if we'll pass my bill that ends the unfairness for d.c. in their income tax.
00:29:49They don't have a full voting member of congress.
00:29:51 goes -- >> so get rid of their income tax.
00:29:55The gohmert bill.
00:29:59>> The pew survey says 84% of tea party voters vote in primaries.
00:30:05They're intense, they're organized and they come out to vote.
00:30:08That's going to matter.
00:30:09Particularly in iowa with a crowded republican field.
00:30:11And rand paul starts with his father's constituency in a crowded field, that's a plurality.
00:30:20>> But the tea party is like a -- a controlled wildfire that is now burning the republican party, especially the republican party establishment.
00:30:26So I don't know if the tea party is good for the republican party in 2016 given the fact that it has narrowed the base of the party.
00:30:33>> And it's igniting an immediate confrontation.
00:30:37>> And I think that's why, george, I really think they have one or two more election cycles where they can continue like this.
00:30:45Otherwise the infighting is getting so severe that I don't see how you sustain that.
00:30:49>> Let's talk about the one coming right now.
00:30:52SEPTEMBER 30th, GOVERNMENT RUNS Out of funding.
00:30:55Rand paul and ted cruz, other republicans, marco rubio, saying unless obamacare is defunded, we shouldn't approve the government funding.
00:31:07President obama took that on friday.
00:31:09>> My friends in the other party have made the idea of preventing these people from getting health care their holy grail.
00:31:16Their number one priority.
00:31:19The one unifying principle.
00:31:25That's the only thing that seemed to get the president really riled up on friday.
00:31:32He says it's an ideological fixation.
00:31:36How does it play out?
00:31:36Do you believe that faction is going to succeed in pushing the leaders to hold the line?
00:31:39>> That's a false narrative.
00:31:40He says we're trying to keep people from getting health care.
00:31:43That's just not true.
00:31:45That's an absolute, blatant lie.
00:31:48We're not trying to keep anybody from getting health care.
00:31:49Whether or not they have insurance under an exchange or not does not prevent people from getting health care.
00:31:57>> Want to take that on?
00:31:58>> Sure.
00:31:58The fact is you have millions and millions of americans who can't afford health insurance.
00:32:01It's helping people get health insurance.
00:32:06Republicans have offered no other solutions or plans.
00:32:09>> We have -- >> but at this point, it's just ideology.
00:32:11It's just extreme ideology.
00:32:13>> Does the government shut down?
00:32:15>> The congressman says that's a lie.
00:32:20Remember when mark stain said the difference between a lie and a cat is a cat only has nine lives?
00:32:28The fact is the president has the power, particularly when supported as this one is by the mainstream media to set the narrative.
00:32:32The narrative will be that the republicans have chosen to cause chaos.
00:32:34It's a bad idea.
00:32:36>> To go down the line.
00:32:38>> You can not govern the country from one-half of the three branchs of government.
00:32:48Can't be done.
00:32:48>> It appears the speaker of the house, john boehner, agrees with that.
00:32:55Mitt romney gave a speech, one of his few.
00:32:59Mitt romney was warning republicans of being accused of shutting down the government.
00:33:01>> Mitt romney, romneycare is obamacare.
00:33:02They're not what I call distant relatives, maybe kisses cousins.
00:33:08BUT HE SUPPORTED john McCain and others that this is a foolish idea to try to shut the government down.
00:33:18And many of the veterans of previous government shutdown, newt gingrich and others are speaking out as well.
00:33:28>> What's going to happen?
00:33:29>> I don't know.
00:33:30Even though we're one-half of the legislating body from which no spending occurs unless we agree, that is a position that allows us to force others to adhere to the constitution.
00:33:39We don't have to wait for the supreme court.
00:33:41We can force that.
00:33:43And we can say you're going to abide by the constitution whether the supreme court gets it wrong or right.
00:33:53We have the ability to force respect for the law.
00:33:55And some of us think that we ought to force them to do that.
00:33:59>> Do you think you have the votes to defund obamacare?
00:34:00>> Not right now.
00:34:01We'll see after august after people go home.
00:34:02As far as obamacare, though, when the president himself says it's not ready, so I'm giving this break to all big business.
00:34:09What about the poor guy making $14,000?
00:34:12He's going to pay extra income tax if he cannot afford to pay the several thousand dollars for an obamacare policy.
00:34:19Who's caring about him?
00:34:22A lot of us do, but not this president because he didn't let the individual mandate have a year off.
00:34:28That only goes to big business.
00:34:29That's not fair.
00:34:31>> Well, I would say, first of all, it's the law of the land.
00:34:34The congress passed it, the president signed it.
00:34:37And a conservative supreme court upheld it.
00:34:39It's the law of the land -- >> so how does he get to they a year for just rewrite and say we're going to delay it for a year.
00:34:52>> The problem is the house republicans, with all due respect, I'm a former hill staffer, not a member.
00:34:55They cannot agree on spending.
00:34:56Just before the recess, they could not pass a transportation hub bill.
00:34:59I don't understand the republican party these days.
00:35:02They have set these budgetary goals and they're afraid to meet them.
00:35:09>> We're not afraid to meet them.
00:35:12>> Too extreme.
00:35:14>> But you have to remember, and I think lyndon johnson said it, if two people agree on everything, one is unnecessary.
00:35:23It's good to have a good disagreement.
00:35:24That's how we got to the constitution -- >> lots of disagreements over immigration reform.
00:35:27We heard donald trump say passing it would be death for the republican party.
00:35:33And president obama spoke out on that on friday on friday as well, making this claim.
00:35:37>> I'm absolutely confident if the bill was on the floor of the house, it would pass.
00:35:41The problem is internal republican caucus politics.
00:35:49>> Which means that the senate bill, unlikely to reach the floor of the house of representatives.
00:35:57>> And if it did, it wouldn't pass.
00:35:58>> It's unconstitutional, it goes back.
00:36:01>> What republicans are hearing, the new york times which wants the republican party to go away, saying that if only they would pass immigration reform, it would prosper.
00:36:14There's a dissonance there republicans don't like.
00:36:19I'm much more sympathetic to immigration reform than most republicans are, but how many of your members, probably none, face electoral defeat if they oppose immigration reform.
00:36:28>> I don't know.
00:36:30But I think you would be shocked how many -- I think most everybody in our party would vote for an immigration reform bill once they can be sure the boarder is secure.
00:36:39But until -- >> including legalization for the undocumented in the country?
00:36:43>> I think we could get an agreement on all of those things.
00:36:47But if you pass a dream act without the border being secured, you're going to have to have another one and another one and another one because people are going to continue to come.
00:37:00George, you had an editorial we had a net zero, but you still continue -- our border patrol are saying we're getting three to five times the numbers coming while we talk about legalization.
00:37:12Secure the border and we get the bill passed.
00:37:14>> The number of apprehensions, the crossings is at a 40-year low.
00:37:19We have double the number of border patrol agents than 2004 when president bush was in office.
00:37:24The border has never been more secure than now.
00:37:27>> In 1916 it was.
00:37:30>> Right now the plan is to take immigration reform in pieces.
00:37:34Take border security first and then consider other aspects.
00:37:38Can that work?
00:37:39Is there a way to get comprehensive reform?
00:37:44>> As democrats we want a comprehensive bill.
00:37:49Theoretically, if you did it piecemeal, if you had a bill for each piece, you could send it to conference, have a final conference bill and have each chamber pass it.
00:38:01But that's not the intention of the republicans in the house.
00:38:06>> They're cherry picking.
00:38:09Do you support the kids act?
00:38:10I guess it's the dream act.
00:38:11>> I support securing the border, and until that, with i don't think we ought to be talking about who gets legalized.
00:38:16Once we secure the border as determined by the border states within not homeland security.
00:38:23Your new, brilliant, one of my favorite democrats -- >> here comes the but.
00:38:28>> What I've learned in my eight years, when you hear comprehensive, republican or democrat, it means we have a lot of bad laws to pass, but can't do it unless we have a big bill.
00:38:41>> George, you get the last word.
00:38:42>> Furthermore, the well has been poisoned by the president insisting on his unilateral anti-constitutional power to rewrite laws and not enforce laws he doesn't like.
00:38:53No one on the republican side believes that anything in the immigration bill will be binding on an unleashed president.
00:38:59>> We're going to have to leave it right there.
00:39:02Great discussion.
00:39:02>>> The billionaire founder of amazon buys "the washington " how did bezos change the news business?
00:39:07ezos change the news business?
00:39:12"the washington post.
00:39:17How did bezos change the news business?
00:39:18" how did bezos change the news business?
00:39:21That's coming up next.
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00:41:22>>> major shakeup ithe >>> major shakeup in the media world.
00:41:24The graham family's "washington post" bought by jeff bezos of amazon.
00:41:26What it teaches us about the future of news.
00:41:28 jeff bezos of amazon.
00:41:33What it temps us about the future of news.
00:41:36Our panel weighs in next.
00:43:36>>> Amazon founder jeff bezos send a thunder bolt through the media world with the surprise purchase of the washington post.
00:43:45We've got an expert panel on what it means for that world and what bezos may do with the post.
00:43:51Rebecca jarvis has background.
00:43:52>> Reporter: The paper that brought down nixon and breaking news for more than a century this week made news.
00:44:01After 80 years, the graham family sold the washington post for $250 million to amazon founder and ceo jeff bezos.
00:44:09>> We will become a place that does its traditional jobs but tries things.
00:44:14And I hope it will succeed.
00:44:16>> Reporter: It won't be easy.
00:44:19Sales and profits both are shrinking.
00:44:21Circulation is down 40% in the last decade.
00:44:24Bezos told employees in order to turn it around, we will need to experiment.
00:44:29Which is exactly how amazon got started.
00:44:32Today it's worth more than $130 billion.
00:44:36Surpassing expectations as he TOLD cynthia McFadden in 2009.
00:44:41>> Did you have any idea how it was going to work?
00:44:46>> No, the business plan was very modest compared to what happened.
00:44:53>> Reporter: Bezos isn't alone.
00:44:54Other billionaires have jumped into the print business.
00:44:56What does he do next?
00:44:56It's innovate or die.
00:44:58>> It's dangerous not to evolve.
00:45:00If you want to ensure your extinction, cease to evolve.
00:45:04>> Reporter: For "this week," rebecca jarvis.
00:45:10Abc news, new york.
00:45:11>> Joined again by george will, your cool yum has been in the washington post for, what, 40 years?
00:45:22And david, for ten years.
00:45:22And bloomberg west tv, and arianna huffington, editor and chief of the huffington post.
00:45:28Started the new media.
00:45:29Your selling price was higher than the washington post just a couple of years ago.
00:45:32>> Yes, it's interesting how everything has changed.
00:45:35But it's interesting how much faster you can create a brand now.
00:45:39Obviously the washington post is a historic, legendary media brand.
00:45:45But look at brands that were created, you know, in the last few years.
00:45:50Twitter, 2006, instagram, 2010, huffington post, 2005.
00:45:56So that changes dramatically the media landscape.
00:45:58But I think this is wonderful news.
00:45:59>> And everything arianna mentioned, I believe you can add tumblr, instagram, they all went for higher prices than the washington post.
00:46:13>> The boston globe was bought 1 billion in 1993, and sold for $70 million.
00:46:24They gave it away.
00:46:24He's earned a place in the pantheon of american business with forbes, jones, sears and roebuck, all of those.
00:46:34But he's a genius, maybe not a magician.
00:46:41>> Does he have to be a magician?
00:46:43>> I think he bought it for the sheer intellectual challenge of it.
00:46:47That's a big one.
00:46:48>> I want to get to that question, but first about donald graham.
00:46:50One of the old media families.
00:46:51They loved the washington post.
00:46:51Clearly didn't to want let it go.
00:46:54You wrote about his final speech to the post and said this was kind of a tragedy.
00:47:00>> I think his heart was broken to have to give it up.
00:47:04But the post was diminishing year by year, losing money and circulation.
00:47:07It was losing and there was no answer.
00:47:11There was no answer.
00:47:12>> Was it avoidable or not?
00:47:14>> Even if he made different moves, made it more national than local, embraced politico in some way and made it his own.
00:47:27I don't know.
00:47:28I don't know if that would have saved it.
00:47:29New york is very different from washington.
00:47:31The new york times is very different from the washington post.
00:47:33And the new york times has enough challenges as it is.
00:47:34Here's what interests me most, though, jeff bezos is a great innovator in technology.
00:47:37That's terrific.
00:47:37He has vastly more money than the grahams, which is important to invest in the newspaper.
00:47:41But will he run a newspaper that puts pressure on power.
00:47:44That's what interests us most.
00:47:46That's not a value, that's a universal among anyone, much less -- >> some have suggested the opposite.
00:47:56Perhaps he's buying protection for his business.
00:47:58>> Precisely.
00:48:01>> Cory johnson, you cover jeff bezos.
00:48:04You've covered -- and as I talk about his motives, george will says it's the intellectual challenge.
00:48:07>> You talk to people who know jeff bezos, the first thing out of everyone's mouth is he's smart.
00:48:13It's interesting in a world of smart people, hedge fund managers, entrepreneurs and technology.
00:48:20He's the guy they say is smart.
00:48:23He's quick and he's thoughtful.
00:48:25One of the interesting things is he built his business initially on books.
00:48:31Of all the things he could have sold, he chose books.
00:48:37He chose seattle because there was a distributor that helped him take on barnes and nobles.
00:48:43Now they are struggling.
00:48:45Similarly, he has a love of the written word.
00:48:46One of the interesting anecdotes that I have picked up from former executives and board members, he starts the meeting with study hall.
00:48:53If you're an executive, and you want to bring a project, launch a multi-billion dollar business, bring the plan to the corporate meeting or to the board meeting, single-spaced, no graphics, no powerpoint slides.
00:49:12Everyone sits and reads a multi-page memo in silence and discusses it.
00:49:19He loves the written word and the language.
00:49:20I think that's interesting.
00:49:21>> That is fascinating.
00:49:22>> Tell us about the washington post.
00:49:23>> And he's a distribution master.
00:49:25Somebody who can actually come up with different distribution channels for great journalism.
00:49:31And to david's point, somebody who really can use the internet to keep the feet of the powerful to the fire more effectively because the internet allows you to do that constantly.
00:49:43>> One of the ways the internet is doing it, and those who have succeeded in the new media tend to have, george will, a more clear ideological bent.
00:49:51Arianna, the huffington post, and others on the right.
00:49:59And even the billionaires who bought big newspapers seem to succeed when they have a political agenda rather than a general agenda.
00:50:10>> To the extent we know his political philosophy, it's a techie libertarianism.
00:50:18For gay marriage, against taxation on people like him which is perfectly sensible in my point of view.
00:50:21It seems to me his ideology is less important to his motives than the challenge of seeing if he can make this go.
00:50:29When gutenberg started with the printed word is not over because of the digital.
00:50:32>> But it's changing dramatically right now.
00:50:37>> And it would be incredibly important if he can establish a beyond left and right position for the washington post.
00:50:42Just look at the things we are not covering at the moment because they are divided in the absolute left-right way.
00:50:50The war on drugs, today in the new york times, what's happening to the california prison system.
00:50:56We're having a major incarceration drug war crisis.
00:51:01Somebody -- >> we know about them because we are covering these things.
00:51:06One of the very few places that invests in it, that puts in the investment is a place like the washington post or the new york times or I should say the new yorker as well.
00:51:16Now, mike bloomberg is a great innovator, but I have to say I've heard straight from the horses mouth, from mayor bloomberg that he detests the new york times.
00:51:22>> Does he want to buy it and change it?
00:51:25>> He might want to do the latter.
00:51:28But it's not up for sale as they have made clear for the moment.
00:51:32But bloomberg thinks it's an opinion on the front page.
00:51:39He really loathes it.
00:51:42That may be because he's covered day after day and has an ego the size -- >> I wouldn't imagine a new york mayor thought differently.
00:51:50>> No one was the richest mayor and has the capacity to buy it.
00:51:54He's done astonishing things in the media.
00:51:56Being a newspaper proprietor is the exception.
00:51:58So jeff bezos may in fact be a wizard in many ways.
00:52:01But it remains to be seen if he has the same values as the grahams.
00:52:06And if you trust don graham as i learned to in ten years at the washington post, I never had to trust him more than in his judgment to revive the washington post.
00:52:16>> Cory -- >> but one quick thing, it's not just about strengthening journalism.
00:52:26It's also about looking at news and seeing how can we reinvent it, how can we redefine it to move beyond simply what is covering corrupt and broke ton cover what is working.
00:52:39With his foundation, he's done an amazing job.
00:52:40>> But all the journalism experiments, they are trying cover what is working and don't end up creating a profit.
00:52:49You guys at aol had to sell patch covering local news because it just doesn't work.
00:52:54>> Our coverage of what is working has been one of the most profitable.
00:52:57The public and readers love it, advertisers love it.
00:53:00But it's critical when you have a more and more dysfunctional government to focus on what individuals, communities, startups are doing that is actually working and help scale it.
00:53:17It's essential right now.
00:53:18He can help do that.
00:53:18>> In five years, what does the washington post look like based on what you know about jeff bezos?
00:53:21>> To throw it back to the earlier premise, taking aside his work online.
00:53:25If you expand the conversation wider, what's worked in sports and celebrity coverage.
00:53:32There are passionate sites that cover culture and sports that haven't had to take a left or right view.
00:53:38It's not just old media in a new world.
00:53:40I think what you can expect from bezos is investment.
00:53:43The way they're investing in amazon is incredible.
00:53:46They have spent more in the last six months investing than any year in their history.
00:53:53Their spending like crazy to build up and invest.
00:54:00But also experimentation.
00:54:03You would expect him as an owner to push hard to find new ways to develop media that's appropriate for the new age that maybe the graham family couldn't figure out.
00:54:14Don graham sits on the board of facebook.
00:54:16He is not a rube when it comes to technology.
00:54:17>> Didn't invest enough.
00:54:18George will.
00:54:18>> Hard on bookstores, not on books.
00:54:20People are reading a lot.
00:54:22I'm in 400 newspapers, I have no idea how many people read my column in the paper or on web.
00:54:31I'd like to find out.
00:54:33Maybe he can help me.
00:54:34>> Great discussion, everyone.
00:54:34Thank you so much.
00:54:35>>> And the senator who turned his legislative work into an action-packed thriller.
00:54:38Action-packed thriller.
00:55:46>>> Time now for the "sunday " shining on byron dorgan.
00:55:49The former senator from north dakota caught us by surprise when he started penning spy novels after retiring from the senate.
00:55:58As he told john karl, the plot of his latest thriller is based on intel he picked up in congress.
00:56:07>> Reporter: It's the terror plot in the movie live free or die hard.
00:56:12>> It's crashing.
00:56:13>> They just hit the entire financial sector.
00:56:14>> And the top of the real-life u.s. threat list.
00:56:16>> The next pearl harbor could be a cyber attack.
00:56:20>> Reporter: And now the key plot in a new book called gridlock by former senator byron dorgan.
00:56:29>> It might be terror, cyber terror shutting down an electrical system.
00:56:36I decided to write a thriller.
00:56:38>> Reporter: The one-time author of appropriations bills is churning out action thrillers.
00:56:45This is the second.
00:56:46When you were writing the bills, they didn't read like thrillers.
00:56:48>> You were in politics, now you write fiction, same thing.
00:00:26>> Next a special hearing in san francisco superior court is about to begin.
00:00:29Will the judge approve the governor's request for a cooling-off period to avert another possible bart strike?
00:00:35We will have a live report.
00:00:38>> A live look outside.
00:00:39The golden gate bridge.
00:00:41No surprise here.
00:00:41Plenty of fog but clearing quicker today for some warmer temperatures.
00:00:46I'll have a look at the seven-day outlook